|
Sprinkler Systems
Uhaul move
Lawn care
Roses and trees
Ford Parts
Chrysler Parts
Lake Powell
New IPod Touch Apps
New IPhone Apps
IPhone Apps
IPad Information
IPad Apps
Android APPS
Android Games APPS
Android Systems
Android Tablets APPS and Beyond
Smartphone Apps
Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools
Tablet PC
Car Sharing Car Leasing
Tabler Pc
Fly Fishing
Toyota Cars
Vacation Rentals
Stock market
NYSE
SSE Stock
Freight & Shipping News
Gluten
Lactose
Gout
My Coupon Life
Campgrounds Check
Outdoor
Kitchen Design and Redoo
Bath Remodeling
Palm Springs
Las Vegas Vacation Tipps
Lake Powell Boating
Homes for lease
Electric and green Car Blog
Pearls and diamonds
Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App
Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
|
Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » Re: [I] Tale not cancelled, nor sold
| Re: [I] Tale not cancelled, nor sold [message #252609] |
Fr, 14 April 2006 14:48 |
|
graham <graham [at] DELETETHISaffordable-leather.co.uk> writes:
>
> DS9 was hamstrung by Roddenberry's "Wouldn't it be nice if everyone
> was nice" universe.
Have you actually *watched* the series?
I give you 'In The Pale Moonlight' as an extreme counterexample (Sisko
engages in a plot that leads to the assassination of a Romulan Senator
to get the Romulans to enter the Dominion War on the Federation
side). But note that it is an extreme. There are less extreme examples
of 'not nice' behaviour, from the very start of series 1 (e.g. how
anybody could mistake Major Kira for a traditional 'nice' Star Trek
hero is a mystery to me).
What I like about DS9 is actually that they *ditched* the 'Roddenberry
Vision(TM)' and actually had their characters make hard choices
instead of technobabbling or Deus-Ex-Machina'ing away the dilemma's.
Sure, the series had occasional complete clunkers as episodes. Big
deal. Overall it was damn good TV drama.
Mart
--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.
|
|
|
| Re: [I] Tale not cancelled, nor sold [message #258054 ] |
Mo, 17 April 2006 23:21 |
|
Hi there,
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:48:02 +0200, Mart van de Wege
<mvdwege.usenet [at] wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>> DS9 was hamstrung by Roddenberry's "Wouldn't it be nice if everyone
>> was nice" universe.
>
>Have you actually *watched* the series?
Yes, actually I've watched the whole series.
And picking out individual episodes doesn't make the whole thing good.
>What I like about DS9 is actually that they *ditched* the 'Roddenberry
>Vision(TM)' and actually had their characters make hard choices
>instead of technobabbling or Deus-Ex-Machina'ing away the dilemma's.
Hmm, "Hey, look, here comes a socking great Dominion Invasion Fleet
through the Wormhole, what are we going to do?"
"I know, I'm the Emissary, I'll just ask the Wormhole Aliens to simply
wish them away..."
<SPIT>
>Sure, the series had occasional complete clunkers as episodes. Big
>deal. Overall it was damn good TV drama.
Overall it was just more Trek. And that's not a compliment.
Cheers,
Graham.
|
|
|
| Re: [I] Tale not cancelled, nor sold [message #258064 ] |
Mo, 17 April 2006 23:26 |
|
Also Sprach graham:
> Hi there,
>
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:48:02 +0200, Mart van de Wege
> <mvdwege.usenet [at] wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>>What I like about DS9 is actually that they *ditched* the
>>'Roddenberry Vision(TM)' and actually had their characters
>>make hard choices instead of technobabbling or
>>Deus-Ex-Machina'ing away the dilemma's.
>
> Hmm, "Hey, look, here comes a socking great Dominion
> Invasion Fleet through the Wormhole, what are we going to
> do?"
>
> "I know, I'm the Emissary, I'll just ask the Wormhole
> Aliens to simply wish them away..."
>
> <SPIT>
About as accurate a summary as saying the Shadow War ended
pretty much the same way...
--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
|
|
|
| Re: [I] Tale not cancelled, nor sold [message #258663 ] |
Fr, 21 April 2006 01:14 |
|
Hi there,
On 17 Apr 2006 21:26:43 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
<daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote:
>> Hmm, "Hey, look, here comes a socking great Dominion
>> Invasion Fleet through the Wormhole, what are we going to
>> do?"
>>
>> "I know, I'm the Emissary, I'll just ask the Wormhole
>> Aliens to simply wish them away..."
>>
>> <SPIT>
>
>About as accurate a summary as saying the Shadow War ended
>pretty much the same way...
Nothing like it.
The Dominion were sending a huge fleet through the Wormhole, Sisko
tells the aliens that "if that happens 'the game' ends". The fleet
vanishes.
Deus ex Wormholus.
Cheers,
Graham.
|
|
|
| Re: [I] Tale not cancelled, nor sold [message #258760 ] |
Fr, 21 April 2006 12:46 |
|
Also Sprach graham:
> Hi there,
>
> On 17 Apr 2006 21:26:43 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
> <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote:
>
>>> Hmm, "Hey, look, here comes a socking great Dominion
>>> Invasion Fleet through the Wormhole, what are we going to
>>> do?"
>>>
>>> "I know, I'm the Emissary, I'll just ask the Wormhole
>>> Aliens to simply wish them away..."
>>>
>>> <SPIT>
>>
>>About as accurate a summary as saying the Shadow War ended
>>pretty much the same way...
>
> Nothing like it.
<snip summary>
Sorry, my mistake. I'd gotten the details mixed up somehow.
You're right, that was a deus ex machina. OTOH, you yourself
stated earlier in the thread that "picking out individual
episodes doesn't make the whole thing good"; it doesn't make
it bad, either 8-).
It's possible (even likely) I've got the end of the Shadow War
wrong too. As I recall it, Sheriden tells the Shadows and
Vorlons that the younger races aren't playing any more, and
they go away...
--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
|
|
|
| Re: [I] Tale not cancelled, nor sold [message #260196 ] |
Do, 27 April 2006 01:49 |
|
Hi there,
On 21 Apr 2006 10:46:15 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
<daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote:
>>>About as accurate a summary as saying the Shadow War ended
>>>pretty much the same way...
>> Nothing like it.
>
><snip summary>
>
>Sorry, my mistake. I'd gotten the details mixed up somehow.
Thanks.
>You're right, that was a deus ex machina. OTOH, you yourself
>stated earlier in the thread that "picking out individual
>episodes doesn't make the whole thing good"; it doesn't make
>it bad, either 8-).
No, and DS9 did have some good episodes. However as an overall series
with an arc, it was more soap opera (or space opera) than a coherent
story with plot and character development.
>It's possible (even likely) I've got the end of the Shadow War
>wrong too. As I recall it, Sheriden tells the Shadows and
>Vorlons that the younger races aren't playing any more, and
>they go away...
No, that's correct, but that was the *point*. The Shadows and the
Vorlons were like the DW gods playing games with the "lesser races"
and the playing pieces realised this and said "no, we're not going to
be treated as pawns in your games anymore, so 'Get the Hell out of our
Galaxy!'."
Cheers,
Graham.
|
|
|
Gehe zu:
aktuelle Zeit: Sa Mai 26 02:49:05 CEST 2012
Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,06636 Sekunden |
